Paul Williams still by quoting Brown still ends up refuting Islam because Brown attacks the Bible and therefore now both Paul and Brown refute themselves and their religion.
And Just a quick note This will be My last Refutation to Brown's Article and After I finish refuting this Article I will be making a Refutation More Articles on Paul Williams Blog as well as his Muslims Friends writing on his Blog.
By God's Grace I will refute More Lies against the Bible made by Paul Williams his Articles and Muslims Friends.
So back to the Brown's Article in my Last Post I refuted the Idea that Brown kept repeating that Jesus and Paul Taught Different Messages and I showed that If you Read the Bible it is clear Brown's aiming at deceit and lying because Jesus and Paul TAUGHT the same message. I also showed that you CAN'T separate Jesus from Paul because it was BECAUSE OF JESUS that Paul BEGAN proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ.
And as I have stated before the section that I highlight will be the section I will be refuting. In this particular Part of My refutation Part 4 I will be addressing Browns' claim about Paul and all the Scholars that he quotes that supposedly support his case and as usual I will expose his Lies and Show his pupil Paul Williams and himself that they end up refuting Islam and their Prophet.
Let us Begin:
And here's Brown's Article one again :
Where is the “Christ” in “Christianity?”
Religious scholars have long attributed the tenets of Christian faith more to Paul’s teachings than to those of Jesus. But as much as I would like to jump into that subject, I think it best to back up and take a quick, speculative look at the Old Testament.
The Old Testament teaches that Jacob wrestled with God. In fact, the Old Testament records that Jacob not only wrestled with God, but that Jacob prevailed (Genesis 32:24-30). Now, bear in mind, we’re talking about a tiny blob of protoplasm wrestling the Creator of a universe 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles in diameter, containing over a billion galaxies of which ours—the Milky Way Galaxy—is just one (and a small one, at that), and prevailing? I’m sorry, but someone was a couple pages short of a codex when they scribed that passage. The point is, however, that this passage leaves us in a quandary. We either have to question the Jewish concept of God or accept their explanation that “God” does not mean “God” in the above verses, but rather it means either an angel or a man (which, in essence, means the Old Testament is not to be trusted). In fact, this textual difficulty has become so problematic that more recent Bibles have tried to cover it up by changing the translation from “God” to “man.” What they cannot change, however, is the foundational scripture from which the Jewish Bible is translated, and this continues to read “God.”
Unreliability is a recurring problem in the Old Testament, the most prominent example being the confusion between God and Satan! II Samuel 24:1 reads, “Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, ‘Go, number Israel and Judah.’” However, I Chronicles 21:1 states, “Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.”
Uhhh, which was it? The Lord, or Satan? Both verses describe the same event in history, but one speaks of God and the other of Satan. There is a slight (like, total) difference.
Christians would like to believe that the New Testament is free of such difficulties, but they are sadly deceived. In fact, there are so many contradictions that authors have devoted books to this subject. For example, Matthew 2:14 and Luke 2:39 differ over whether Jesus’ family fled to Egypt or Nazareth. Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4 differ over the wording of the “Lord’s Prayer.” Matthew 11:13-14, 17:11-13 and John 1:21 disagree over whether or not John the Baptist was Elijah.
Things get worse when we enter the arena of the alleged crucifixion: Who carried the cross—Simon (Luke 23:26, Matthew 27:32, Mark 15:21) or Jesus (John 19:17)? Was Jesus dressed in a scarlet robe (Matthew 27:28) or a purple robe (John 19:2)? Did the Roman soldiers put gall (Matthew 27:34) or myrrh (Mark 15:23) in his wine? Was Jesus crucified before the third hour (Mark 15:25) or after the sixth hour (John 19:14-15)? Did Jesus ascend the first day (Luke 23:43) or not (John 20:17)? Were Jesus’ last words, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit my spirit’” (Luke 23:46), or were they “It is finished” (John 19:30)?
These are only a few of a long list of scriptural inconsistencies, and they underscore the difficulty in trusting the New Testament as scripture. Nonetheless, there are those who do trust their salvation to the New Testament, and it is these Christians who need to answer the question, “Where is the ‘Christ’ in ‘Christianity?’” This, in fact, is a supremely fair question. On one hand we have a religion named after Jesus Christ, but on the other hand the tenets of orthodox Christianity, which is to sayTrinitarian Christianity, contradict virtually everything he taught.
I know, I know—those of you who aren’t screaming “Heretic!” are gathering firewood and planting a stake. But wait. Put down the high-powered rifle and listen. Trinitarian Christianity claims to base its doctrines on a combination of Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings. The problem is, these teachings are anything but complementary. In fact, they contradict one another.
Take some examples: Jesus taught Old Testament Law; Paul negated it. Jesus preached orthodox Jewish creed; Paul preached mysteries of faith. Jesus spoke of accountability; Paul proposed justification by faith. Jesus described himself as an ethnic prophet; Paul defined him as a universal prophet.*
Jesus taught prayer to God, Paul set Jesus up as intercessor. Jesus taught divine unity, Pauline theologians constructed the Trinity.
For these reasons, many scholars consider Paul the main corrupter of Apostolic Christianity and Jesus’ teachings. Many early Christian sects held this view as well, including the second-century Christian sects known as “adoptionists”– “In particular, they considered Paul, one of the most prominent authors of our New Testament, to be an arch-heretic rather than an apostle.” (1)
Lehmann contributes,
What Paul proclaimed as ‘Christianity’ was sheer heresy which could not be based on the Jewish or Essene faith, or on the teaching of Rabbi Jesus. But, as Schonfield says, ‘The Pauline heresy became the foundation of Christian orthodoxy and the legitimate church was disowned as heretical.’ … Paul did something that Rabbi Jesus never did and refused to do. He extended God’s promise of salvation to the Gentiles; he abolished the law of Moses, and he prevented direct access to God by introducing an intermediary. (2)
Bart D. Ehrman, perhaps the most authoritative living scholar of textual criticism, comments,
Paul’s view was not universally accepted or, one might argue, even widely accepted …. Even more striking, Paul’s own letters indicate that there were outspoken, sincere, and active Christian leaders who vehemently disagreed with him on this score and considered Paul’s views to be a corruption of the true message of Christ …. One should always bear in mind that in this very letter of Galatians Paul indicates that he confronted Peter over just such issues (Gal. 2:11-14). He disagreed, that is, even with Jesus’ closest disciple on the matter. (3)
Commenting on the views of some early Christians in the Pseudo-Clementine literature, Ehrman wrote,
Paul has corrupted the true faith based on a brief vision, which he has doubtless misconstrued. Paul is thus the enemy of the apostles, not the chief of them. He is outside the true faith, a heretic to be banned, not an apostle to be followed. (4)
Others elevate Paul to sainthood. Joel Carmichael very clearly is not one of them:
We are a universe away from Jesus. If Jesus came “only to fulfill” the Law and the Prophets; If he thought that “not an iota, not a dot” would “pass from the Law,” that the cardinal commandment was “Hear, O Israel, the Lord Our God, the Lord is one,” and that “no one was good but God”….What would he have thought of Paul’s handiwork! Paul’s triumph meant the final obliteration of the historic Jesus; he comes to us embalmed in Christianity like a fly in amber. (5)
Dr. Johannes Weiss contributes,
Hence the faith in Christ as held by the primitive churches and by Paul was something new in comparison with the preaching of Jesus; it was a new type of religion. (6)
A new type of religion, indeed. And hence the question, “Where is the ‘Christ’ in ‘Christianity?’” If Christianity is the religion of Jesus Christ, where are the Old Testament laws and strict monotheism of the Rabbi Jesus’ Orthodox Judaism? Why does Christianity teach that Jesus is the son of God when Jesus called himself the “son of Man” eighty-eight times, and not once the “son of God?” Why does Christianity endorse confession to priests and prayers to saints, Mary and Jesus when Jesus taught his followers, “In this manner, therefore, pray: ‘Our Father …’” (Matthew 6:9)? And who appointed a pope? Certainly not Jesus. True, he may have called Peter the rock upon which he would build his church (Matthew 16:18-19). However, a scant five verses later, he called Peter “Satan” and “an offense.” And let us not forget that this “rock” thrice denied Jesus after Jesus’ arrest—poor testimony of Peter’s commitment to the new church.
Is it possible that Christians have been denying Jesus ever since? Transforming Jesus’ strict monotheism to the Pauline theologians’ Trinity, replacing Rabbi Jesus’ Old Testament law with Paul’s “justification by faith,” substituting the concept of Jesus having atoned for the sins of mankind for the direct accountability Jesus taught, discarding Jesus’ claim to humanity for Paul’s concept of Jesus having been divine, we have to question in exactly what manner Christianity respects the teachings of its prophet.
A parallel issue is to define which religion does respect Jesus’ teachings. So let’s see: Which religion honors Jesus Christ as a prophet but a man? Which religion adheres to strict monotheism, God’s laws, and the concept of direct accountability to God? Which religion denies intermediaries between man and God?
If you answered, “Islam,” you would be right. And in this manner, we find the teachings of Jesus Christ better exemplified in the religion of Islam than in Christianity. This suggestion, however, is not meant to be a conclusion, but rather an introduction. Those who find their interest peaked by the above discussion need to take the issue seriously, open their minds and then … read on!
Copyright © 2007 Laurence B. Brown
Permission granted for free and unrestricted reproduction if reproduced in entirety without omissions, additions or alterations.
(A graduate of Cornell University, Brown University Medical School and George Washington University Hospital residency program, Laurence B. Brown is an ophthalmic surgeon, a retired Air Force officer, and the medical director and chief ophthalmologist of a major eye center. He is also an ordained interfaith minister with a doctorate in divinity and a PhD in religion, and the author of a number of books of comparative religion and reality-based fiction. His works can be found on his website, www.LevelTruth.com)
∗ Jesus Christ was one more prophet in the long line of prophets sent to the astray Israelites. As he so clearly affirmed, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) When Jesus sent the disciples out in the path of God, he instructed them, “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5-6) Throughout his ministry, Jesus was never recorded as having converted a Gentile, and in fact is recorded as having initially rebuked a Gentile for seeking his favors, likening her to a dog (Matthew 15:22-28 and Mark 7:25-30). Jesus was himself a Jew, his disciples were Jews, and both he and they directed their ministries to the Jews. One wonders what this means to us now, for most of those who have taken Jesus as their ‘personal savior’ are Gentiles, and not of the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” to whom he was sent.
Brown starts off this particular section and says that Scholars consider Paul a "corrupter" of Christianity because his message supposedly "contradicts" Jesus.
But what I keep telling you guys is that Brown doesn't tell you that these same people who he quotes will turn back and expose the Koran,Muhammad and Islam. In other words The scholars Brown is quoting are people who do not believe in God and the supernatural and therefore Brown just refuted the Koran and Islam. And another thing Brown is again being deceptive because as I have just stated many time you CANNOT separate Paul from Jesus because it was because of Jesus Paul became the man we read in the New testament. And thirdly according to the Koran as I posted in earlier on my blog. The Bible is the Un corrupt word of God that Brown himself (because he's a Muslim) must believe in and by quoting these people he puts himself in the same situation as Paul, which is proving Islam,Muhammad and the Koran FALSE.
He then goes on to say the some Early "Christians" called the "adoptionist" and again this shows how deceptive Brown is. Because these so called Christian did not believe that Jesus was fully human nor did they believe that Jesus was the Eternal Word in the Prologue of John and therefore these people are Heretics according to Christians. So Brown is again making a blank case. He points to a rare group of people and says that this specific group represents all the Christians in the world today, how deceptive.
So if the adoptionist Group that Denies the Fullness of Deity In Christ and his humanity, then would it surprise us then that they would deny Paul as well of course. In other words These supposed Christians that Brown is talking about denied Jesus's own words because Jesus clearly taught that he was God but he also claims that he is a man. While Paul claims Jesus is fully God and claims that he's fully man, so Brown actually proved my point for me because like I said before you can't separate Paul from Jesus because it was because of Jesus that Paul BEGAN and proclaimed the message of Jesus. This heretical group that Brown mentions not only consider Paul a Heretic but must of Jesus as well because Jesus claimed that he is fully God but also fully Man, so Brown ends up disagreeing with Jesus and Paul by quoting the heretical "Christians" Group.
He then begins to Quote Scholars Like Bart Ehrman and Lehman Scholars Muslims love so much and Brown quoting Ehrman does not realize that by doing so he condemns Islam because Ehrman would attack the Koran even more viciously than he would the Bible, so I don't understand Muslim in consistency.
Lehman says " What Paul proclaimed as ‘Christianity’ was sheer heresy which could not be based on the Jewish or Essene faith, or on the teaching of Rabbi Jesus. But, as Schonfield says, ‘The Pauline heresy became the foundation of Christian orthodoxy and the legitimate church was disowned as heretical.’ … Paul did something that Rabbi Jesus never did and refused to do. He extended God’s promise of salvation to the Gentiles; he abolished the law of Moses, and he prevented direct access to God by introducing an intermediary. (2)
Lehman again makes the repeated argument that Paul's message was heretical and like I have stated before you can't separate Paul from Jesus.
For the sake of the Readers I will post the material again to show that Paul's Message and Jesus were the same.
So in this Verse Paul claims that he has persecuted Gods people and tried to destroy it.
And here's More : 12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength,that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Here Paul is admitted and describing God's Grace towards himself because he persecuted the church and blasphemed God. He was violent and yet God showed him Mercy and turned his Life around specifically Jesus Christ who saved him and poured out his love.
So what Made Paul become a believer and pro claimer of Christ??
It was because of Jesus he became the Man that we read in the Epistles.
And here is the verse : Acts 9:1-19
9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”
“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
So we Read in this Chapter that Paul was Threatening Jesus's followers. And asked the high priest for Letters to the synagogues so that if any Christians were found they could be delivered to him and taken prisoner. So it is clear that Paul wants nothing to do with Christ. Let's continue as Paul Journeyed to Damascus all of a sudden a light came from Heaven flashing above him. This entity asked him Why he's persecuting his Church and Paul responded by asking him who this individual was. And the individual confirmed that he himself is Jesus.
Jesus then tells Paul to go to the city and in doing so Paul becomes blind and the Men that traveled with him didn't know what was going on they just became speechless and guided Paul to Damascus. And for 3 days Paul was blind, however a Disciple by the name Ananias was told by Jesus in a vision. Jesus tells him to go to Straight Street and ask for a Man named Saul/Paul. Because Paul in his own vision saw Ananias restore his sight. Ananias knowing who Paul was -was uncomfortable because of all the Wrong that he has done to the Christians.
So as you can see I already Posted these in my first blog and it is clear that Paul before converting to Christianity was a blasphemer and persecuter of Christians he hated Jesus and his followers. However on the Road to Damascus Jesus appears to Paul and all of a sudden he is a changed Man and BEGINS to proclaim Jesus's message and therefore Paul's teachings in the New Testament was contingent on Jesus's appearance to him.
So Lehman again is being Deceptive and sometimes I wonder if he really read the New Testament.
He then says that Paul abolished the Law and that he extended Salvation to the Gentiles.
Again Lehman is being Deceptive because Jesus FIRST was to witness to the Jews and then the whole world and Paul Perfectly agrees with his Message.
Here are verses on Jesus coming to fulfill the Law
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them
So in this Case Lehman thinks that Jesus didn't come to abolish the Law but what he doesn't understand is that Jesus had to fulfill the Law first before can be abolished, in other words Jesus was the one the Old Testament Prophets pointed to their Law and Covenants were all geared towards him NOT US but hims and After he fulfills that then that Law is not longer in effect anymore because Jesus Fulfilled it, so Lehman is being deceptive and doesn't understand what the Bible teaches.
And we Read in Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
So in this verse Jesus himself makes it clear that we are not under the same covenant as those in the Old Testament because those covenants and Laws were all pointing to Jesus because he was the Fulfillment of them. How can Jesus abolish the Law if he is the fulfillment himself.
But once he fulfills it then the Law is abolished because Jesus clearly said that his blood is the NEW COVENANT.
So much for Lehman"s claim that Paul supposedly abolished the Law when is is clear from the lips of Jesus himself that his New Blood is the New Covenant.
And Regarding Paul and Jesus teaching different messages.
Here's some verses to my good friend Brow Lehman and Later on Ehrman:
John 10:17-18 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."
Col 1:21-22: “yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight”
John 2:19-22 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body. Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.”
Phil 2:8: “And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”
Luke 24:6-8 "He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, "saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'"And they remembered His words.
Rom 14:9: “For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.”
So it is clear once again Jesus and Paul taught the same CORE MESSAGE that Jesus came to Die and Rise from the Dead to save sinners.
So again I don't know what Lehman is Talking about in his quote.
Ehrman then says in his quote " Paul’s view was not universally accepted or, one might argue, even widely accepted …. Even more striking, Paul’s own letters indicate that there were outspoken, sincere, and active Christian leaders who vehemently disagreed with him on this score and considered Paul’s views to be a corruption of the true message of Christ …. One should always bear in mind that in this very letter of Galatians Paul indicates that he confronted Peter over just such issues (Gal. 2:11-14). He disagreed, that is, even with Jesus’ closest disciple on the matter. (3)
Ehrman says that Paul's Message wasn't universally accepted and somehow this proves his Message was False, So Just Because some Christian Groups didn't believe in Paul this some how makes his Message false.
If Ehrman is going to apply that silly logic then I guess he's going to have to believe his message is false because over 2 billion Christians in the world don't believe what he says regarding the Bible so then I guess according to his Logic his material and beliefs must be false as well.
And in Regards to Peter and Paul Disagreeing
Let's Read what the context and see what Bart Erhman missed.
Galatians 2:8 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the CIRCUMCISED, was ALSO at WORK in ME as an apostle to the GENTILES.
And in Regards to Peter and Paul Disagreeing
Let's Read what the context and see what Bart Erhman missed.
Galatians 2:8 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the CIRCUMCISED, was ALSO at WORK in ME as an apostle to the GENTILES.
In other words Peter was the Leader and apostle for the Jews While Paul was an apostle for the gentiles.
So That's why Paul and Peter had a little dispute because they both had different roles to play.
But that doesn't take away the Fact the Peter believed that the Message should not go out to the Gentiles because he sent Paul himself to the gentiles.
Here are the verses:
Galatians 2-7-9
7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been ENTRUSTED with the TASK of PREACHING the GOSPELS to the UNCIRCUMCISED,[a]just as Peter had been to the CIRCUMCISED.[b] 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the GENTILES. 9 James,Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They AGREED that WE should go to the GENTILES, and they to the circumcised.
So according to this Passage Peter actually entrusted Paul to do his work. However Peter task was to preach to the Jews while Paul was to Preach to the Gentiles but both taught the same messages but just played different roles or callings.
So just because Peter and Paul had some disputes does not mean that Paul was a heretic it just means that at times they disagreed with one another but eventually both understand their task and what they had to do.
Peter did not thinks Paul's message as corruption as he ENTRUSTED him to do his work after recognizing what Paul has been CALLED TO DO.
So much for Paul corrupting Christianity AND again to Brown and Bart Jesus and Paul can't be separated because it was because of Jesus that Paul started his ministry, there's no way around it.
Let us continue:
Ehrman then says
Paul has corrupted the true faith based on a brief vision, which he has doubtless misconstrued. Paul is thus the enemy of the apostles, not the chief of them. He is outside the true faith, a heretic to be banned, not an apostle to be followed. (4)
But I just showed you that Peter entrusted Paul to do his Message and Peter do his.
So again I don't know was Bart is Talking about.
Here is the Verse again Galatians 2-7-9
7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been ENTRUSTED with the TASK of PREACHING the GOSPELS to the UNCIRCUMCISED,[a]just as Peter had been to the CIRCUMCISED.[b] 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the GENTILES. 9 James,Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They AGREED that WE should go to the GENTILES, and they to the circumcised.
Peter eventually recognized that Paul was also an apostle but was sent to the Gentiles while Peter to the Jews.
Joe Carmichael then says "We are a universe away from Jesus. If Jesus came “only to fulfill” the Law and the Prophets; If he thought that “not an iota, not a dot” would “pass from the Law,” that the cardinal commandment was “Hear, O Israel, the Lord Our God, the Lord is one,” and that “no one was good but God”….What would he have thought of Paul’s handiwork! Paul’s triumph meant the final obliteration of the historic Jesus; he comes to us embalmed in Christianity like a fly in amber. (5)
So according to this Passage again Paul is a "Universe" away from Jesus after showing clearly that you can't separate Paul from Christ because it was because of Christ that Paul became the Man in the New Testament.
I gave you verses where Christ and Paul taught the main CORE message that Christ came to die and Rise for the sins of the world so again Carmichael is making a blank case.
'
Please scroll up and see all the verses in where Paul and Jesus agree on their CORE MESSAGE.
Again Carmichael is repeating the same thing over and over about how Jesus and Paul supposedly taught different messages.
Dr. Johannes Weiss then says
Hence the faith in Christ as held by the primitive churches and by Paul was something new in comparison with the preaching of Jesus; it was a new type of religion. (6)
A new type of religion, indeed. And hence the question, “Where is the ‘Christ’ in ‘Christianity?’” If Christianity is the religion of Jesus Christ, where are the Old Testament laws and strict monotheism of the Rabbi Jesus’ Orthodox Judaism? Why does Christianity teach that Jesus is the son of God when Jesus called himself the “son of Man” eighty-eight times, and not once the “son of God?” Why does Christianity endorse confession to priests and prayers to saints, Mary and Jesus when Jesus taught his followers, “In this manner, therefore, pray: ‘Our Father …’” (Matthew 6:9)? And who appointed a pope? Certainly not Jesus. True, he may have called Peter the rock upon which he would build his church (Matthew 16:18-19). However, a scant five verses later, he called Peter “Satan” and “an offense.” And let us not forget that this “rock” thrice denied Jesus after Jesus’ arrest—poor testimony of Peter’s commitment to the new church.
Is it possible that Christians have been denying Jesus ever since? Transforming Jesus’ strict monotheism to the Pauline theologians’ Trinity, replacing Rabbi Jesus’ Old Testament law with Paul’s “justification by faith,” substituting the concept of Jesus having atoned for the sins of mankind for the direct accountability Jesus taught, discarding Jesus’ claim to humanity for Paul’s concept of Jesus having been divine, we have to question in exactly what manner Christianity respects the teachings of its prophet.
A parallel issue is to define which religion does respect Jesus’ teachings. So let’s see: Which religion honors Jesus Christ as a prophet but a man? Which religion adheres to strict monotheism, God’s laws, and the concept of direct accountability to God? Which religion denies intermediaries between man and God?
If you answered, “Islam,” you would be right. And in this manner, we find the teachings of Jesus Christ better exemplified in the religion of Islam than in Christianity. This suggestion, however, is not meant to be a conclusion, but rather an introduction. Those who find their interest peaked by the above discussion need to take the issue seriously, open their minds and then … read on!
Please scroll up
He then says if Christianity is the religion of Jesus then where is the strict Monotheism in the Old Testament of Jesus.
Number 1 Jesus did not become flesh yet and Jesus taught the Shema which is strict Old testament Monotheism so I don't know what Weiss is saying quite honestly.
Here is the verse: Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
So Here from Lips of Moses we see the Shema being proclaimed.
And in the New Testament Mark 12:19 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
So here Jesus says the Shema in perfect agreement with Moses in the Old Testament, so they taught the same God and strict Monotheism.
Weiss then says why does Christianity teach that Jesus is the Son of God when Jesus called himself the Son of Man.
First Jesus referred to himself as the son man because he was the Messiah and 2 Jesus did call himself the Song Of God.
Mark 14:60-62 Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[Messiah] the SON OF THE BLESSED ONE?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
So it is clear Jesus called himself the Son of God and that's why the Jews wanted to stone him, so i don't know what Bible Weiss is reading because Jesus clearly claims to be the Son of God in this passage.
Also in the begging of Mark 1"11 And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."
So according to this Passage Jesus is the Son of God the Father, Jesus has from the words of God the Father a title as God the Son.
And through out the Gospels Jesus refers to himself as the Son.
In Fact the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be the Son Of God and Jesus didn't correct them.
John 5 -16-18
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his OWN Father, making himself equal with God.
So it is clear that Jesus himself refers to himself as the Son of God and that's why the Jews wanted to stone him because he was claiming to be God.
He then says why does Christianity endorse confessing to priest and Prayers to saints.
Number 1 That's different interpretations regarding the many Sects of Christianity but all agree with Core Tenants of Christian Faith that Jesus came to Die and Rise for the sins of the world.
So Wiess thinks that just because a certain Sect confesses sins to priest then all of a sudden Christianity is false when it's all a matter of interpretation when at the end of the day it's about the Core message that Jesus taught.
So Weiss is desperate BECAUSE if he's going to apply this logic then he has to condemn every faith around the world.
Then he says that Jesus taught his disciples to pray to the Father and not him.
False Jesus did tell his followers to pray to the Father but he also told them to pray to him.
Here is a verse John 14:13 And I WILL DO WHATEVER YOU ASK in my NAME, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
So in this passage Jesus says that the Disciples can Pray/Ask and whatever they ask Jesus HIMSELF WILL DO IT.
And Jesus supposedly did not teach his followers to pray to him.
You see how these People just lie and distort the Bible.
He then says who appointed a Pope Jesus didn't and then immediately contradicted himself and says that well Jesus in Matthew 16:18-19 where Jesus called Peter the rock upon which he will build his church and then dances and changes the subject and says well Jesus calls Peter Satan.
Number 1 Thank you Weiss for proving my point that Jesus did appoint Peter as the Leader of the Church and that's why we have one today called Popes. And 2 nice try trying to dance around the issue and say that because Jesus called Peter Satan then therefore he can't be the Leader, how desperate can you be???
And by the way the reason Jesus calls Peter Satan was because Peter was trying to get Jesus to avoid the Cross which was the very thing he came on Earth to do but what does this have to do with Jesus appointing Peter as the one who will build his Church???
He then goes on to talk about how Peter this "Rock" as he said denied Jesus thrice and yet this same Peter after Jesus rose again preached the name of Jesus and was willing to die in other words the Holy spirit had not come yet and that's why the disciples were scared and denied Jesus.
So what point is Weiss trying to prove.
In fact here is the are verses Just for you: 2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,[b] 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”
13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”
Peter Addresses the Crowd
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs,which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]
29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
So the same Peter who Weiss just complained about is same Peter in this chapter where he boldly and confidently proclaims the name of Christ and is no longer the frightened Peter but the one that is ready to give his life for Christ because now the Holy Spirit had come upon the Disciples.
So I don't know what games Wiess is playing here.
He then says is it possible that Christians have been denying Jesus ever since, well not according to the 2 billion Christians who believe that Jesus,Died and Rose again. He then says is possible that Christians have transformed Jesus strict Monotheism with Paul's doctrine of the trinity. And goes on again how Jesus taught Strict Monotheism and Accountability while Paul taught Justification by Faith and how Jesus is Divine.
Again not true Jesus taught the Trinity as Well Please Read Part 3 Of My Refutation where I clearly show that. Jesus also taught Justification by faith and Paul taught accountability as well Please read Part 3 all these claims are answered.
He then makes an astonishing claim as says that Paul taught Jesus was divine and that Jesus only taught that he was Just a Human.
Let me post verses and see for your self:
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Here Jesus claims immortality
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
Jesus claims to be the source of Life itself
I can quote so many more Passages that Prove Jesus is God
And this fits perfectly with Paul's teachings that Jesus is God.
Yes Jesus was Man but he more than that because he was God who became flesh.
So much for Jesus supposedly only claiming to be human LOL
He then goes on and say which Religion Respects Jesus the Most and honors him as prophet and a Man, which Religion adhere's to strict Monotheism and which religion applies accountability to God and denies Human relations with God.
Number 1 I just showed you Weiss that Jesus clearly claimed to be God I gave you some references, so the Religion that honors Jesus the Most would have to Christianity at least according to what Jesus claimed to be.
And in regards to strict Monotheism Amen Because we Christians believe in one God but 3 Persons who share that one Nature.
And we Christians apply accountability to God as well even tho we have an Assurance of Salvation As I clearly showed on my Last Post please Read it and you will see what I am talking about.
And Second we Christians believe that God is All powerful and can interact with humans because he has the Power to do so.
So I don't what Weiss means here or trying to prove.
He then says if you answered Islam then you would be right.
My answer: YOU WOULD BE WRONG.
Because according to the Koran Jesus was Just a Prophet and did not claim to be the Son of God however I just showed you that Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and also according to the Koran Allah is a Father to no one and Yet Jesus calls God Father so how does Islam Fit the teachings of Jesus when it obviously contradicts it.
Here are the Passages:In the Qur’an it says in Sura 2:136 “Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)”
So Here is is Clear that Jesus in the Koran is a mere prophet because Muslims make no distinctions between them.
But how do you reconcile that with Jesus in the New Testament:
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
So according to Jesus he existed before time itself so Jesus in the New Testament cannot be the Jesus of the Koran because he's clearly distinct from all the prophets and is God himself.
Surah 19:35-36 It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: therefore serve Him; this is the Straight Way.
So According to this Passage Allah can't have sons and is a father to no one.
But we read in Mark 14:60-62 Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[Messiah] the SON OF THE BLESSED ONE?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
So Here Jesus claims he's the Son of God so how can Jesus be the closest to Islam when according to Islam Allah has no sons and here Jesus refers to himself and the Son.
So Weiss keep lying and distorting and proving Islam to be False.
And in regards to God becoming Man or interacting with human Jesus himself as God came down as a Man so how Weiss say that Islam is closer to Jesus, when Jesus clearly said he himself came down from Heaven and yet Islam denies this doctrine.
Here some verses John 6:8 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me
Here Jesus claims that he himself came down from Heaven in other words Jesus became a Man to fellowship with us and Die for our sins.
But Weiss just said that Islam denies that doctrines so therefore Islam must be False and Jesus cannot be closer to Islam than Christianity.
And in regards to Strict Monotheism Jesus claimed to be God but the Father and the Spirit are Gos as well. So we Christians believe in One God.
But in Islam Allah is not a Father and therefore cannot be close to Jesus and joins Muhammad as an object of Salvation even tho the Koran clearly claims that Allah is supposedly the One "true" God.
Here is a verse in the Koran Surah 6:163
He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).
So according to this Passage Allah has no Partner and yet Muslims and Allah need him to supposedly save Muslims.
This is pure idolatry and not only that Muslims Kiss a black stone in Mecca and bow down to the Kaba.
When according to the Bible this Idolatry.
Exodus 20:3-6
“You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
So Jesus cannot be closer to Islam because according to the bible any act of bowing down to a Man made CARVED IMAGE is blasphemy and idolatry and yet Muslims kiss the black stone,bow down to the Kaaba and in join Muhammad for supposed salvation.
AND THIS IS THE STRICTEST FORM OF SUPPOSED MONOTHEISM
I AM DEEPLY SORRY NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So in Conclusion Of Laurence B. Brown Article all his attempts and attacks against the bible have been exposed and refuted. And I praise God for giving me the Power to refute all the lies and attempts he tried to make on the Bible.
And to his Pupil Paul Williams nice try trying to post articles on your blog to supposedly deceive Christians into thinking that our Religion has problems. And when we examine it they are no problems and in doing so again you end up proving your own religion false because according to the Koran Allah sent down the Bible as the authoritative word of God. And to your Master Mr Brown you just refuted yourself and your religion as well and I pray that the Holy Spirit brings you out from this bondage and False Religion that's Keeping billions from coming to Christ.
Thanks everyone Hope Learned something
And God Bless
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