Sam Shamoun actually had his FIRST debate against one of If not Islam's Best Apologist by the name of Shabir Ally. Many People who have watched this Debate have made claims in regards who won and things like that.
Muslims would claim that Shabir Won and Christians would claim that Sam won. However if you unbiased watch the Debate you must ask the Questions.
Who did a better Job Presenting their Case??
Who Responded to the Others Arguments???
These are the kinds of Questions you should be asking.
In other words If you watch the Debate unbiased who really Won the Debate.
I actually watched the debate Myself and I thought both side did really well However, One Side I thought did a better job of responding to the arguments while other did not.
I actually scrolled down to the Comment section on Youtube where the Debate is Posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFiNE_g8M9A and Read that an Atheist unbiased watched the Debate with some friends and all his friends unbiased said Sam actually Won the Debate.
Which I myself would agree even If I wasn't a Christian.
I have actually had some dialogue with Muslims on Paul's Blog about the Debate Here's the whole discussion:
- @ For Christ ..AAh , the debate between Shabbir and Shamoun .For Christ , see the debate again the only point which Shamoun brought in the debate was Quran approves the Bible , that’s it .Shabbir was thoroughly academic , he quoted scholars to show how the Bible was altered , he quoted scholars to show the Bible has errors , he showed how the Bible uses vulgar language . Shamoun did not rebut any point of his and he did not quote a single scholar !The 2 most embarrassing points for Shamoun in the debate was …1) When Shabbir quoted Barclay on Revelation 14:4 Shamoun rejected it.Shabbir asked how can you reject a scholar with out even reading him , .That is your Shamoun arrogant and ignorant .2) When Shabbir showed that the Biblical God repented , Shamoun brought the word ‘ tawwab ‘ and was trying to show Allah did the same . Shabbir rebutted him and asked him to see the dictionary !That is your hero Shamoun , rejects scholars without reading them , does not know basic Arabic .Coming onto your claim that Shabbir and Zakir are running from him , that is a oft repeated nonsense . Shabbir has debated the best of Christian theologians successfully , coming onto to Zakir he has already debated the answering Islam team and demolished it completely . Shamoun was sitting behind in the debate and was watching helplessly how Zakir teared apart the team of answering Islam. In India Zakir has debated top scholars , doctors on various issues , he debated Ravi Shankar a top gun and demolished him too , your Shamoun is nothing in front of him .I want to bring to your notice your hero Shamoun has ran away from debating a student of Yousuf Islam in South Africa ! , why so ? .
Jesus
Sami Zaatari derailed both David and Shamoun .Even David praised Sami on how good a debater he is .Then the debate between Sami and Shamoun it was Shamoun who was loosing the cool , Sami was spot on and logical and rebutted all points which Shamoun brought .Abbas Bahdo
For ChristYou said;
You see Muslims will keep silent as soon as the topic becomes about Muhammad, strange If you really believe in his prophet hood then what are you Muslims so Afraid of. When Muslims want to debate whether Jesus is God I am gladly to do it because I know he is and he proved it by rising from the dead.I say;
Somebody like you, changing and introducing words that are not found in the narations of our literature makes our prophet looks bad, but when we use the same rape to refer to Jesus commanding virgins to be raped in the bible, you tell me to bring the word rape in the “keep the virgins for yourselves” in your Bible commanded by your lord Jesus Christ.I also say Mr. Dawson give me the word rape from the passage from the Quran. Mr. Dawson says Booty=Rape. What english are you learning? This has exposed your desparation to find fault of our prophet. Most translations even do not use the word booty, even if it is booty it is not rape.I think you pondering and begin to count the number of Gods you have and also how a dead is useless and cannot do anything should remove you from Christianity.As simple as that. Stop manufacturing decietful words like rape, etc, to our prophet.Thank you.- @For Christ ………. i ask you againWhy did Shamoun has ran away from debating a student of Yousuf Islam in South Africa ? .
For Christ
Lol Sam running away from Yousuf and by the way Sam owned Shabir, and that;s Zakir Naik and Shabir have been running like cowards LOLAnd Sam did not run from anyone this your personal claim.And in regards to Yousuf show me where Sam has been running- Sami Zaatari is good debater but I don’t take him seriously because he got humiliated in his debates with Sam,David and James White.
- ” And Sam did not run from anyone this your personal claim. ”Ha ha , you did not know even this !Sam did not own anybody its your personal claim ! watch my comment above on the debate between Shabbir and Sam .Show me which scholar he quoted in the debate and tell me why he rejected Barclay without reading him and why he did not know the meaning of word
‘ tawwab ‘ and told a lie .As to Zaatari even David keep praising him on his debating skills , he completely destroyed David , James and Sam in his debates with them . - Lol Sami “destroyed Sam,David and James OK THERESaami Zaatari ran at the end of the debate with Sam Lol they were supposed to debate is Muhammad a prophet but he ran.In the James white debate in the crucifixion Saami got owned because he kept changing the subject to the Resurrection and pointed to scholars who actually agreed with James whiteIn regards to David Wood Saami Zaatari did well in the one debate is Muhammad a prophet of God but that’s it David pretty much owned in every other debate.And in the Sam shamoun debate I’ll agree that Sam using the Koran was a pretty weak case because he could have taken a different route but Shabir didn’t touch his points in the rebuttals and got exposed in the cross fire or questions and then made silly excuses how he doesn’t accept the other passages how deceptive.
- And in regards to Zakir Naik supposedly refuting answeringIslam may I point you to the refutations David and Sam made on Abn, Lol Naik’s argument’s are pathetic and he hasn’t debated one experienced debater he has been running.In fact here is a Link were all three were challenged to a Debate with David.Sam and JamesIn this it’s clear the one’s who are running are your top Muslim apologists.
- No Muslim apologist is running . It is you who think that . It is Sam who ran away from Yusuf’s student .Coming onto David and James both were completely demolished by Sami . Just come to terms with it man . Even David praises Sami !The new debater Zakir Hussain has derailed James and David in a scholarly and academic way , both James and David praised Zakir on how academic points he brings .That summaries it our debaters are ACADEMIC and SCHOLARLY ….Shabbir , Paul , Zakir Hussain , yours just a joke !
- By the way you didn’t answer me1) Why Sam rejected Barclay on Revelations 14:4 without even reading him2) Why Sam lied on ‘ tawab ‘ , Shabbir had to show the dictionary on that ! ,
lol , that is your best , need to show him a dictionary in debate !Is that your best dude ? Abbas Bahdo
JesusFor Christ is a typical Christian missionary here who I have been showing him dictionary the moment he started commenting here.He started by referring to Sam Shamoun’s illogical fallacy of his superior subordinate God, ie square circle or married bachelor to further confuse his Christian friends.He then manufactured and changed words the way he wants. Some smart missionaries will only use this lies, deciet, and ignorance in Christian media but not Exploring Life blog.Thank you.- Abbas your the one that’s actually a liar and misquoted the Biblical and Koranic text.And regards to debate Zakir naik,Jamal Badawi and Shabir Ally have been running from David and Sam i showed you that links where they offered and open challenge and all three ran like cowards.And the reason why Sam rejected Barkly is because he was an anit super naturalist so why would he accept him.And in this Shabir ends up refuting his own Koran because they would say the exact same thing about Koran, no true serious scholar would even take Jesus in the Koran seriously.Shabir even by a source told Muslims to not debate Sam. And don’t forget this was Sam’s first debate and he faced you best and still managed win the debate, I’m not saying that Shabir didn’t do well because he did, but Sam’s points weren’t answered in the rebuttal. And in the Q and A Shabir kept rambling about the development in the Gospels without giving any proof and saying how he can’t trust what Jesus said and yet he would believe that Jesus spoke in the Koran. Sam exposed Shabir when he misquoted the bible and when you watch the debate you will see how Shabir was shaking and making excuses how he doesn’t accept passages in the bible, what a deceptive tactic, you can’t pick and choose the passages you like and then when get exposed make excuses.And that’s why Shabir has been running all these says a lot.And Saami Zaatari got owned by Sam he ran at the end of the debate like a coward because they were suppose to debate Is Muhammad a prophet but he ran LOL.He;s a good debater Saaami but he lost James white and David wood but I’ll admit he did good against David on the topic Is Muhammad a Prophet.But other than that I don’t really take him seriously.
- And Lol Zakir Hussaine is a complete liar in his dialogue saying things can only mean certain things when it doesn’t.And Zakir Hussaine got owned by James White all the passages that he pointed to that supposedly prophesied about Muhammad were all exposed and refuted. For example he mention song of Solomon and they will be bosom trees when in context it’s talking about trees in Solomon s Garden lol.He also got owned by David because David clearly showed that in Context the covenant was through Isaac.
- @For ChristYou still didnt answer my questions1) Why Shamoun ran away from debating Yusufs student
2) Why he lied on ‘tawab’ in the dabate
3) Why he rejected Barclay on Revelations.
4) Which scholar did Shamoun cite in the debateBarclay is a scholar , rejecting him with out even reading him shows what sort of a apologist is your Shamoun , ignorant ! .The most embarrassing movement for him in the debate was Shabbir asked him to see a dictionary on an Arabic word , shame !Shabbir was scholarly throughout the debate , he proved Bible has been tampered with quoted scholars on it , he showed Gospels improved on the stories of Jesus again quoted scholars , he showed Bible has errors .Shamoun did not answer a single of this objection . Still you think Shamoun won , how? .It is Shoumon who lost here.Coming onto Zakir Hussain both James white and David Wood were no match to the research he brought . None of the points he raised were answered by David in the debate , just see the debate once before you comment .Come to terms , ……….. none of your apologist are scholarly or academic and are no match to ours . Yeah , i agree that they beat our apologist in ignorance , e:g Shamoun .
As you can see I had a Great Deal of Discussion with My Muslims Friends on Paul Williams Blog.
The Muslims as you can see kept saying how Shabir Ally "Demolished" Sam because Sam never quoted a scholar or answer the Question about Williams Barkley.
First Of all In fairness this Was Sam's FIRST debate against someone who is Islam's top apologists. And Secondly Shabir ended up refuting himself by quoting these Scholars because Sam in his Opening Statement proved the Koran Actually Confirms the Bible, which Shabir in his Rebuttal did not even TOUCH.
I would agree that Sam could have taken a Different route to prove the Bible instead of using the Koran (which has no Value) to prove the Bible.
However that still doesn't change the fact that Shabir Did not answer the Objections that Sam raised.
There's no question that in the Opening Statements and Rebuttals rounds Sam Dominated that Part of the Debate because he did his best to answer all of Shabir's Objections that He Raised about the Bible, However Shabir did not answer his objections he raised about the Koran confirming the Bible, he just made claims that the Koran confirms what remains intact in the Bible without giving any textual proof but making claims.
And the most Ironic thing I found in the Debate is that Shabir Kept saying how there's so many Things in the Bible that he would not consider the word of God and not realizing by saying that he just condemned his prophet and religion because according to the Koran Allah confirmed the Bible as the Scripture from God that's Number 1. And not only that he took offense to the Graphic language In Ezekiel where God is describing the seriousness of Sin because that's how much he HATES sin. However when Sam ask him about how in Paradise he will have Virgins who he will have sex with for all eternity he then Refutes himself and says what are we going to do in Paradise Play the Harps.
And right here Shabir just made himself look a Fool and Just refuted his Koran and Religion because If he can't accept the Bible as the Word of God because it describes the Seriousness of Sin in Graphic Language then he should all the More condemn Islam because he will literally have Graphic relations in Paradise.
Such Inconsistency on Shabir's Part.
And this is what I am Talking about the Fact that Shabir through out the Debate kept Attacking the Bible and kept proving Islam and Muhammad to be False.
He kept saying things how the Gospels has been Developed and how Jesus is supposedly elevated and things like that and by doing that He again refutes Islam.
So this is What i am talking about When you actually Know about Islam and What it says about the Bible Shabir quite Frankly Made a Fool of Himself because he kept refuting his own religion.
Another thing is Shabir during the Debate actually said that he never Believed Jesus spoke in a particular Passage that Sam Quoted and then refuted himself because No Serious Scholar would even believe that Jesus spoke in the Koran. Also Shabir during the Debate would point to passages that he himself likes and when Sam exposed his lies and Deceits he started to make silly excuses that I don't accept everything I read in the Bible in other words Shabir was obviously exposed and that's why he had to use deceptive tricks and Methods to squirm his way out of what was obviously a Refutation to his Deceptive arguments.
Shabit through out the Debate attacked the Bible and then at times used it to prove his Case and when Sam Exposed him he used these Deceptive Methods of how he doesn't have to Read the Bible in Context.
I Would have to say at Face Value Both Sides did well during the Cross fire and Question and answers session, However Sam I believe still dominated that Session as well because he kept exposing Shabir's claims about the Bible while Shabir even tho some of his Arguments May have sound convincing If you dig a Litter Deeper they are rather PATHETIC and prove his own Religion False because according to the Koran Allah Confirms the Bible as the Un Corrupt word Of God.
In Fact If You Go to Shabir's Website he Has Most of His Debates Posted on his Site But Not the One He Had with Sam Shamoun.
Now Why is that the Case?? I think it's quite obvious because Sam was Victorious.
Another Apologist by the name of Sami Zaatari whom Muslims Praised actually as you can see in the Discussion Above.
Claimed that Saami Won in his Debate with Sam,David and Dr James White.
May I suggest you go and Watch his Debate Titled Is Jesus God? vs Sam Shamoun On Pal Talk and Honestly Saami Got Humiliated and this is the Truth.
In His Debate with James White Saami Lost all of them Especially the one in regards to the Topic Was Jesus Crucified?
And Saami Honestly didn't do a Good Job simply because He quoted Scholars who Agreed that Jesus was Crucified and therefore refuting Islam.
Another thing Saami is actually a Blasphemer and immature and that's one of the reasons why I don't take him seriously.
In Regards to David Wood
David I find Is a Different Debater he's more calm and very Patient when he Debates his opponents he even Praised Saami in of his Debates and that I Respect him for.
However David is still one who Won the Majority of his Debates simply because he demonstrated from his Arguments that his Position is actually the Case.
Saami I will agree did well in his Debate against David Titled: Is Muhammad a prophet of God??
David I think in that Debate simply Did not Expect Saami to Make Good Points about Muhammad even tho He used Deception to prove Muhammad's supposed Prophet.
So In Conclusion It is the Muslim Apologists Like Shabir Ally who have actually been running from Sam Shamoun,David Wood and Dr James White.
And I don't Know why Muslims Keep Making all these Claims without actually examining Debates Academically.
Because It is Clear From The Muslim and Christian Debates.
Namely David Wood, Sam Shamoun,Dr James White,Shabir Ally,Saami Zaatari,Zakir Hussaine That the Christians Won because We have the Truth and his Name is Jesus Christ While Muslims do not have The Truth but Follow a False Prophet who was inspired by a Wicked Spirit to Mislead the World From the Truth.
God Bless you All
The Silly excuses I was talking about was how in the debate Shabir kept quoting verses in the bible out of context and when Sam exposed them he kept complaining and saying how he doesn’t accept those parts which I find very deceptive and dishonest.
It was rather the opposite. In the debate Sam Shamoun was the one quoting verses in the Quran out of context which is typical of a Christian missionary.
You, Mr. Dawson has demonstrated the standard of Christian missionaries here by quoting the quran out of context and changing words to suit you.